Mr b @ MOA addresses AI from an evidently well-informed view>

https://archive.ph/qThI4  “‘Artificial Intelligence’ Is (Mostly) Glorified Pattern Recognition”

Nifty essay.

Maybe it’s crazy to try to use AI for violence, for controlling gadgets and gizmos, oh! Wait! The are crazy…

Best! P

One chance to get it right…”We just don’t know… it is so hair-raising our moment in time. There’s gonna be only one chance to get it right, and defuse it, and prevent the crazed from activating Samson Options in their spiteful agony. I really wish our diplomats well. They will really need to thread the Eye of the Needle.”

Me too. The switch-bounce model – a bit like Mod #1 Type #1 test that has to work on the first shot, it can fry a little, but it has to work.

Respecting bad luck, “Missiles of Okinawa”  ie Sampson may not occur as option, but as fubar or rat-phuck.

The fella with the dead car, his father is older than I, and lonely. 4 years in Vietnam war running an M-60 from a Huey. Entirely unsophisticated save by Time’s lessons. He sees the condition almost clearly, and despairs for the Future of the US, as the US, in his eye, has disappeared already…  Couldn’t care less about Russia, sees Putin as a leader he wishes the US had. He’s near to death. And almost content, awaiting his release. The car belongs to his son. They’re both just at the doorstep, so to say. You know what he saw. He accepts the betrayal with resignation, but doesn’t forget. He can’t..

Note Turner and Moldova invite extended to nazito to c’mon in and git that ammo…rather risible. Indeed, c’mon in the water’s fine, let us see just how deep…how is that tar baby anyway… The wisdom of cultures always brings a smile. Is that paint wet? Right. Phuckaroundandfindout 101, active freshman exercise.

In Kosovo rodeo 101st Airborne seen amongst the “piece-keepers”, one fella anyway. They say the Bondstealbase is a site for special pharmaceutical contraband…money on the table? When not?

Simplicius has a long post with much substance, and weight.

Indeed, let’s keep the dialogue in buoyant stability (fun>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metacentric_height)  A useful model for dialogue, rather, imho!

Best! P

AHH, My Brother! Bless his memory. Thanks.

Yes, probably, guerrilla for a time. However g war requires outside support to endure, which limits it. The young are certainly primed for violence. All my life the Western media and films have flogged direct violence as the best method and first choice to “resolve” conflict, and now the people are sick and drugged, and exchanged .22 zipguns for nice .40 or 9mm automatics. It’s quite to be expected that they shoot one another so readily. Proper safety and sober rules ? It is prohibited to teach these things about guns to the young.

The losses so far exceed the ability to pay for them that it’s obvious that the asset to be forfeited isn’t going to be gold or taxed wealth, as there won’t be. As Hudson says, debts that can’t be paid, are not paid.

The idea of dissolution of a State in law had not really occurred to me. Such a process would presumably involve the auction block liquidation of assets: “…What am I bid for a classic old timey minuteman XS22-A nuclear rocket, complete with silo and bomb?”  “How much for Alaska?” Oh, that’s already gone… Successor states do not automatically bear the debts of previous states, but generally affirm them. It’s an optional matter. In the example of the US, I expect, the debts would devolve in apportionment to the surviving States, according to population by the last census. Each State might either dissolve or not, but I do not think that they’d have to affirm the debts to be burdened by them.

The OBOR project scheme includes rail under Bering S and N_S dual lines through North and South America…though that portion can’t yet be built. The implications are obvious. Some portions of land may be contaminated by the war, surveyors may have to lay out new routes.

Noting that the war sets the scenes for the Peace, if the war is properly pursued.

People who can leave ruins, tend to leave the ruins. The very old and very young cling to the wreckage.

Speaking of States> amusing short Ruski comedy> https://twitter.com/i/status/1663491047836508160  The audience is in this example, and generally, what interests me – what they find to be of focused character. I like the bit about the broken pipe!

To-day I expect to sweat fixing the neighbor’s car…poor fella…his bowels are devouring themselves…bag and some ragged surgery…peritonitis, and minus 50 pounds in a month. It’s a mitzvah thing. help the sick. Probably a waste of time, but necessary to help anyway. Nice guy too, and he was quite fit a few months ago, and he has no significant “bad habits”, as we might put it. The “medical system” here eats people for money, much of the time. My WAG is contaminated food and water, as in farm chemicals and sugars, and natural variation – some people get sick before  others of course. Maybe the jibbiejabs too, I didn’t ask… It doesn’t matter. He’s way over his head in process. I see many people much younger than I who are chronically ill, ruined. And it seems generally environmental, people get sick and die in accord with how they live.

So, AHH, your Father was seriously on the lamb? Three continents! Very good! I did once date a Roma girl who was wanted by Interpol, but that was trivial. She was a genuine (small time smuggler) rogue, youthful misadventure an’ all of that stuff. I applaud your dear Father!

Enough rambling. Best! P

Still considering Moral Question. I’m fairly satisfied about criminal aspect = zero on the part of the people who were taken for a ride. But that doesn’t really satisfy the bigger questions in the situation, not in my view. Perhaps that matter moves toward tort law and into diplomatic and political forms, procedures to come.

S&G question there was no tort, simply crime.

But the questions of debt and toutious responsibility> Thoughts.

Most Jewish Law has to do not with crime, but torts. Private wrongs. This is where we get “eye for eye, tooth for tooth”…it’s not cruelty, it’s apportionment, proportionality, balance.  This underlies the 51% rule, btw.

If a State plans a war of aggression and…(Nurembeg et sec..) and that State wages such a war and causes damage to others, that State may be held to account for reparations, damages… Just as Moshe would have to build a new barn for David if Moshe had destroyed said barn, but it would depend on whether the fire was accidental, mitigating circumstances, etc…

US Law, which would continue to function, we presume, grants the Federal State the right to tax both consumption (liquor, etc) for the purpose of raising revenue and direct tax that must be apportioned – arguments run to apportionment according to Congressional representation. Interesting the “Federalist Papers (Hamilton I think, #41?) strongly implies that no taxation is permitted for purposes other than revenue. (Noting that this promise is not kept, try buying a machine gun, and cigarettes are taxed to discourage smoking, etc.)

Following this path permits the US to tax the people for the purpose of paying damages levied upon the State in Treaty Law.

Après la guerre, il y aura un règlement des dettes. If anybody in the US has anything at all.

Anyway, the responsibility is born by the State or its successor, and that body is capable unlimited direct taxation, so long as it’s apportioned according to Law. Losing wars is a fair lesson as to why one ought to avoid them, somebody gets whupped.  Better to do fair business and drink together, of course, but pirates are pirates as scorpion is scorpion, or sociopaths are to sociopaths…etc.

The “allies” would have their own levies, I imagine, and do what they too would be obliged to do, tax, pay…

The US may be obliged to “pay” with Alaska…in part, tere’s the Fort and the River too, and they may have to give back northern Mexico…and gitmo, btw,

We shall see. Best! P

The changed syntax noted above sounds to me in my innocence of Russian as though the field force liberating 404 now consists of a combined force, as in an allied operation including the forces of like-minded States, not simply individual soldiers, but individual formations and a combined reporting structure under overall command of Russia. Of course maybe it means nothing at all.

If it is now a combined force…well, that’s quite natural. “C’mon in boys! The water’s fine…”

Like General Ripper said – Two can play.

Best! P

Brother! Yes, The Ford in the arctic sea…poetic way to find the end of things, entombed in the icy muck. Nixon was lucky, Gerry was Mr. Fixit.

I responded to yours above>

“Thus perhaps morality is unrelated to the natural development of fascist institutional stupidity – not the responsibility of the people at all, but ruining them without heart… Ethics is at least a dual input “crunch”, so to say. Reality-perception-character in a tirade?”

As you intimate at the end Mr P, it’s a mixed bag… I may not be a lawyer, but logic says its not categorical either way, even accounting for elite subterfuge. There is the ineluctable process of two-way seduction, of both sides preferring the show on the wall of their Plato’s Cave, and working to shape it to mutual satisfaction. Elites do not operate in a vacuum. A saying exists in all old civilizations – “a people get the leaders they deserve…”

(if in-fact this posited process of seduction is ineluctable if cannot be, in the causative sense, a matter of  preference, but it must be intrinsic, situational, structural. Since all the old civilizations used somewhat different ways of seeing and knowing, and of course the meanings of words and concepts differ accordingly, it does seem unrealistic to use an English saying – what do words such as “[a] people” or better “deserve” mean in these generally past civilizations? And does the fact that the old civilizations are gone not imply that these civilizations were prone to error? Did the harem ladies of Sun Tsu’s story deserve their new general who beheaded one of them to enforce discipline?)

Even before the current suffocating PR (the 4th estate becoming open stenographers of Oligarchy) there was a process of gradual immersion, greased by the trauma of war, privation, and periodic lessons such as Dealey Plaza and Kent State atrocities. Does not a dope addict take the first hit consciously and voluntarily? So decades of abuse later, even though he is on autopilot and a helpless victim in society’s eyes, isn’t there nevertheless a portion of blame??

(We have observed drug addicts, and drug users. We disagree. I suggest that drug use is generally shallow and a dual learning process, Skinner’s principles in juxtaposition to character and mind. Indeed “informed consent” (consciously, voluntarily) drug use, particularly with powerful psychotropic material, occurs after experimentation, not prior to. Addiction, as it sometimes proceeds, is itself a learning of two – a learning to do, and to not do. Accordingly, it’s situationally variable behavior. The situation? This is a deliberate manipulation, with a budget and a fleet of ships and aircraft…  “Freeway Rick” and poor Gary Webb come to mind. So no, the dope addict takes his first hit as a naïf, unconscious, incapable of volition. Most do not become addicts – they’re not situationally vulnerable. But of the media; they follow the editorial instructions or look for a job. The editors follow instructions… “media” is simply a branch of the disciplined comprador agents, unless we’re including the back-fence chatter (Saker/GS, being a great back-fence!)  That of course suggests that “media” is an addict, addicted to money and the seduction of greed and power, or at least paying the child-support – (it’s a crime in California, a felony, to quit a job when it results in a failure to pay). Noting that at present the dope business dominates the media financially, or with force when necessary… Blame? Plenty. The US has only one foundational basic gem, the Constitution. Since Lincoln, and increasingly by degree the founding Law has been made “quaint” … count the crimes. But these, though a multitude, are the crimes of individuals. )

This is the stuff of entire libraries.. in every era in every civilization.. do the silent majority have agency when they invariably participate in high crimes? Is not silence acquiescence and in essence participation and thus complicity in Law?

(Silence, etc, is situational. So is obedience. There is a deliberate and contrived situation that generally prevents the development of mens rea. Moreover, duress is quite vigorous, poor Gary being an example, or Dallas, or Lira, or Assange. So no, this peopled-complicity is innocent in Law – not available for collective guilt or punishment.)

More pertinent, what does moral Law hold? What happened to entire societies in biblical narration, when the unopposed course of a few elite families, condemned the whole city? If we agree the same Lord continues to sit above all earthly petty lords and still has Sovereignty, and Justice means impartiality and consistency, what does it imply today for the silent majority??

(In the Biblical example it was the town and the polis, the corrupt structure of operation that God blasted, a failed structure. Lot left the polis, ergo…the perverts had bad luck when they remained part of the polis. Like most of the scriptures, the brevity opens the door to interpretation. I doubt that Justice is either impartial or consistent. Rather it’s situational, a vector sum. Noting that “Tzedakah” and “Mishpat” and “din” are to be understood as all in operation. For example, Jewish Law admits capital punishment, but sets it aside due to the Law of charity. Not forbidden, just not done.)

We live in a sad age, marinated in deliberate ahistorical and amoral emotion which mock these as “trite old stories…” The secular modern Liberal Man holds that each is responsible for the square meter around his feet, and that the obviously criminal overlords neither speak nor can condemn us innocent individuals.

(Yes, we agree, but this describes the situational and contrived deception. Again this “Liberal Man”  lacks mens rea. The “modern Liberal Man” holds his deceptions like a child at a carnival holds a balloon. He has a false icon of belief that he did not create, but was indoctrinated into.)

Is that so???? What stories are westerners raised in from birth, helping set the current stage? To believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth fairy and other ludicrosity, permitting instillation of doublethink from preschool. And this proceeds through every age. So adults are embalmed in cultivated – and widely accepted – ignorance, free of undue and burdensome complicity! (so they think)

(Yes, again, no mens rea, situational deception, the multitude are marks, as I think you have described.)

The martial nation with unending parades, homages, reminders and sundry rites of War — and most jobs in entire lower classes of many states funneled to the MIC and Five Points, a perverse public dole of Death — this is not a problem??? How is there not accountability for this willfully chosen national state of dissociative identity disorder? Can they cheat retribution and deceive the Lord himself??? Who pays for one million suicided Ukies? Do the millions who cheered the killing of Russians and put Ukie flags on their social media and by their gate have carte blanche?

(Of course it’s a problem. There are criminals in a become-criminal enterprise. It’s a failed structure engaged in creating its own destruction. Accountability?  That’s a political matter, it happens, sometimes.)

Even if the process was greased with dishonesty and delusion, the base reality is obvious by now within the inner heart of hearts of even the illiterate. “We commit unspeakable crimes over there to live this way here, and we acknowledge it not, and apportion sole blame to slick politicians and fat cats.” Has this ever washed in moral Law?

(Probably it has not “washed”, but we’re looking at a moment in the self-destruction that seems to suggest an iconoclastic process…as the bus driver said, “we can do nothing”. And as a passenger said, “but China and Russia have armies and they can do something about it”. This does not cast blame, it’s a moment in the dissolution.)

I think we have the same problem. We both love the people and seek to forgive their excesses – like the merciful Patriarch sought such forgiveness, even for the condemned sodomite cities of Lot. But this is not our prerogative. And I greatly fear we will be denied as was the Patriarch. The list, length and nature of crimes is simply too long and horrid. And they remain intent on the same singular course. Posterity simply needs closure so healing and rebirth can take root.

(Well, I do forgive. Things, crimes, happen, run their course, and then don’t. Failed ways stop, after a time, because they don’t work. I’m not sure it’s a problem, or if it is, that it won’t simply solve itself, as most problems do. Indeed “closure” is inevitable.)

Looking at it from another perspective, western regimes held complicit any among the entire population who funded, paid taxes to, verbally or otherwise supported the targeted “terrorists and terrorist-supporting enemy nations” — even mere tweets or putting a Z on a car landed some in jail! And levy genocidal sanctions at slightest infringement, with calculated harm. Albright proudly said 0.5M Iraqi kids killed this way was worth it.

(Criminals say many things, commit many crimes, then they depart – sometimes criminal enterprises come to an end. Ms A and her class being a fine example.)

So for now, let’s put aside moral Law as so contentious, and really above our pay grade, except for those with copious documentation in front of Nuremberg trials. Just by symmetric response, can western regimes be held to same standard as they treat all others worldwide?

(Law, and Morals, and Nuremberg may be on the same shelf, but they are not in the same class – Nuremberg?  that was politics. (A proof being Bush43 vindicating Goering’s opinion of the trials). Western criminal operations follow internal “drang” and have no consistent Policy beyond their vector sum ad hoc, so far as “standards” go. They may be held to any standard that situation post bellum avails. It will be a political matter. It must be, so it will be, so.)

Btw, southern prepper knows the score, like my southern vet patient with shame in his eyes.. They know the overlords are rank criminals without shame or even regard for their own. And that “their service” was largely crime. He works furiously preparing for self sufficiency in the face of imminent society wide political and economic collapse and resultant lawlessness.

(I think so too. Yesterday a feeble old lady spoke at market of how the soldiers have been betrayed! She said the verboten “treason” too!  You know that the veterans are considered to constitute a dangerous group, and it’s said that they ought not be permitted to keep weapons?)

I surmise he chooses to speak as he does for several reasons — to escape YT algorithms, perhaps Overton windows, perhaps the understated southern way of speaking, and basically so he can continue to live in USA. If he publically admitted the depths of the depravity, that his paradigm serves Globohomonazidom, and of what was done to Others worldwide by the Army he served and to his own servicemen when they returned… it’s just too bitter. And he is like me a hopeless optimist. Even as he has thinly-veiled contempt for his gauleiters, he chooses to focus on the good and redeemable and assist others to prepare and to remain hopeful.

(I expect his FBI file number begins “100” (national security prefix). He’s courageous.)

Best! P

At Chronicles it is said> “Many times we ask ourselves the question, i.e., is the ordinary citizen of the US responsible for the acts of their Warmongering State of Insanity?”

The morality matter might be opened to question the behaviors of any State or people, and far into the past. However the question at hand as posed above seems to imply agency on the part of the groups that might be considered as to responsibility. Do the people have agency in the US? This agency would exist in a democracy with well-informed people guiding the State. In the present example, and arguably since the telegraph, at least, of the US this is simply not the case. The people have essentially zero power, they are baldly misinformed, and shrewdly manipulated by experts servile to fascists and ultimately nazis in the full sense. Since the first Europeans with steel and powder invaded this has grown step by step. It’s also stupid. It’s a pathology. https://archive.ph/YBO6u Princeton Study)

and https://archive.ph/X3X4A Famously J. Carter agreed “the US is not a democracy at this time”, as I recall.

Considering the influences (influential and crazy) Adolf Loos had, evidently extending to biology and the sciences > “It is a rule in paleontology that ornamentation and complication precede extinction. And our mutation, of which the assembly line, the collective farm, the mechanized army, and the mass production of food are evidences or even symptoms, might well correspond to the thickening armor of the great reptiles—a tendency that can end only in extinction. If this should happen to be true, nothing stemming from thought can interfere with it or bend it. Conscious thought seems to have little effect on the action or direction of our species.”
― John Steinbeck- John and the Doc went on a voyage in biology.

(https://www.thoughtco.com/adolf-loos-architect-of-no-ornamentation-177859)

Considering that process, how would it effect institutional operation, function? Excessive protocols, irrational agendas, vice?

Thus perhaps morality is unrelated to the natural development of fascist institutional stupidity – not the responsibility of the people at all, but ruining them without heart. The process is obviously terminal. Afterwards the surviving criminal persons (possibly the Great Men who actually knew and could) may be praised or hanged, but that’s politics, not morality. Most Americans would probably not mind in the lest if the criminals were hanged, if they were properly informed. In the past, when they had some power, they sometimes did this, not that I have an opinion as to whether they were right or wrong. Ethics is at least a dual input “crunch”, so to say. Reality-perception-character in a tirade?

Actually I wrote a brief on this matter after the demolitions in NY and before B43 went to Afnamistan or Iraq…predicting more or less the history since then as it would run in the US. And it’s been on my mind since then.

To blame the ordinary schmuck for the crimes of individuals over whom he has no control or understanding, and only knows lies would be as immoral as blaming the dog for his master killing the children next door.

By virtue of character and opportunity and circumstance some US individuals are informed. A few were able to leave and join opposing States and nations. Since they have no agency, they chatter, or perhaps plot…who can say? (We garden, and take notes) The remainder are delusional and distracted and played one against another by experts skill un- imagined by Herr Gobbles.

But maybe I’ll change my mind…maybe the innocent are guilty. Calling Abraham…

Best! P