Home – Global Blog › Forums › The Hearty Salon › Kiev to join up with Russia against the west? – Aleksey Arestovich
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emersonreturn.
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December 31, 2023 at 23:30 #23751
Liz
Participanthttps://www.rt.com/russia/589697-arestovich-ukraine-russia-kiev/
Is Aleksey Arestovich crazy like a fox, or just plain old crazy?
Is he a naziesque hobgoblin? Of course. Is he just a rat on a sinking ship who now can smell the rope that will soon be around his neck? Probably. But, maybe there is more to what he is saying that it appears at a glance?
I imagine many (most) observers of this war who support the Russian side would laugh at this idea and dismiss it as crazy – and that seems to be the trend in the comments section – but what if there actually are aspects they are overlooking that have value?
I think it is generally true that if we froze time right now and asked the question “At this moment does Russia or The West offer a better post-war future for Ukraine?” that the answer would be Russia. The west is using Ukrainians to fight the Russians just as they have used the Kurds to fight the Turks and Arabs. That is becoming so obvious, even in Ukraine, that the punchdrunk/brainwashed Ukrainians can see it through the fog now. And naturally they are pissed.
– The Ukrainians lost a lot of people, they practically lost their entire way of life, much of their country, their dignity, their pride… It’s also true that if they pointed the finger at those who have done this to them, their fingers would be pointed at USUK.
– If the Ukrainians flipped the script now and sided with Russia in earnest, it would amount to rendering the entire UK/US/Ukraine affair as a massive gambit to capture the wests’ entire efforts thus far and use it as a weapon against them – ultimately salvaging the maximum benefit from the current situation as possible. Imagine if Ukrainians en masse began to work with Russian investigators of the biolabs to tell/show them the whole thing top to bottom. Imagine the engineering and technical intelligence they could offer – they have examples of a wide range of the latest western tech, and now how it works in action. The west let Ukrainian eyes get closer to their secrets than they would have ever let Russia eyes get. Ukraine could do a lot for Russia, and to partially atone for their lapse of reason and having been persuaded by the perfidious west to backstab her sister. The west would have massively diminished authority for which to impose their will on the war’s outcome.
– It is also true that the neofascism that is motivating the Zelenski regime is also all over the west, and to even fully invade and capture all of Ukraine and gradually mop up the collaborators there would not affect the neofascist rats outside of Ukraine, who will continue to attack Russia as they can for the foreseeable future. If Ukraine joined the Russians, they would have a far better capability to deal with this group wherever they are.
– It would basically annihilate the wester revisionist narrative in the minds of Ukrainians that ‘Russia is the enemy of we Ukrainians, and the west is our friend’ and strongly reaffirm that they are the brotherly people of Russians and Belorussians. I believe that the Russian and Belorussian people would be glad to have the family back together, in the long run and in the big picture.
– If that happened it would nuke Biden’s re-election bid. Imagine the dirt the Ukies have on the Bidens alone, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Biden would do down, and if Trump is then elected as is likely so, then the stage would be set for criminal discovery that could lead to large swaths of the neoliberalcon shithouse going down with him. If the neoliberalcons lose this election to Trump or Kennedy they are likely done for, having been soundly spanked in Ukraine and Syria by the Russians and shitting in their own nests at home with everything from Raeganomics to the LBGTQ movement. If Ukraine joined Russia, it would not only settle the Ukrainian matter but could likely sink the Straussian battleship at the strategic, world level.
– That outcome might even be preferable to the Kremlin than the other options on the table. It kind of looks like Putin is preparing to bargain off old Romanian, Hungarian, and Polish territories back to their motherlands in exchange for their recognition of Russian ownership of its old regions, among other concessions. Whether or not this involves invading all or most of Ukraine, I don’t know. But it probably does. Putin doesn’t want that. He is no Netanyahu. If that is Putins chosen path forward, what would that lead to? A defeated Ukraine, harboring resentment against Russia for a generation or two, poorer and more miserable than they have been since Soviet times. If Ukraine rejoined Russia in a serious way and socked it to the west together, the final outcome would retain all of Ukraine’s current eastern territories and have a population that came to see their mistake and sees Russia as their own kind, as liberators from a neofascist regime who seduced them.
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In any case, I thought the idea was interesting and also unexpected and unorthodox, so I figured I would start a thread here to see if anyone wanted to talk about it. Thank you for reading my longer than expected post about this bizarre topic. I would love to hear your ideas and opinions.
Happy New Years!!!
– Liz
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January 1, 2024 at 18:41 #23797
Grieved
ParticipantThanks for posting this. I think it’s an interesting foretaste of more to come, as the locals turn quisling on Ukraine and seek to ingratiate themselves with Russia. If Arestovich has any dirt to spill, I’m sure the Russians will take all of it they can get, as they change the regime – but I don’t know that they would want to pay any kind of price for it.
Russia will set all the surrender terms. People like Arestovich may or may not survive, depending on if there are any federal cases pending against him for war crimes and the like. I would guess there will be plenty of squealers trying to make deals as the pincers close.
Interestingly, Yulia Tymeshenko has reappeared in the midst of the presidential fray. She’s a credible force, and I find it conceivable that Russia could deal with her as President of Ukraine – Mercouris thinks so too:
Medvedev hints regime change. Tymoshenko makes move
She too spoke bitter rhetoric against Russia in earlier days of this operation, but she’s a lying politician at all times so perhaps Russia wouldn’t care much about that. The only question for Russia is, who can deliver Ukraine best to suit Russia’s requirements? I suspect she could do it much better than Arestovich. At any rate, she’s presented her credentials to the big table.
There will be many such squeals and twisting in the wind I think, yet to come. The solution here, as in Palestine, will come from the battlefield. The age of talk, it appears, is over.
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January 1, 2024 at 19:27 #23798
Mr P
ParticipantThe natural alignments of the Russian People flow … of course the people will unite. The SMO works toward such an eventuality, which is really the only proper way. The alternative is not to be.
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January 1, 2024 at 20:33 #23800
emersonreturn
Participantdear liz, i agree with our dear mr. p, thank you for posting this.
i’ve been mulling debt, if i remember correctly, blackwater holds a great deal of ukraine’s debt? i can’t see mother repaying any of it, & if she should return territory (important aside: i suspect mother will have to keep kiev close, under her watch rather than beneath the heel of another) but the debt becomes interesting when we consider romania, poland, possibly germany, & hungry? while mother can say nyet, nyet to blackwater it will be problematic for EU members. the inevitable negotiations could be riveting, as putin & team may gift empire a problematic prize, a trojan horse intended to fracture the union.
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