The War & Genocide Thread
Keep talking about Gaza!
Permanent X link to Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur – the Occupied Territories.
A previous thread contains Netanyahu’s ‘spiritual needs’.
Sep 14
Over 50 Airstrikes hit Gaza yesterday.
Marwa Osman: Ever wondered how “Israel” was made?
1. The Haifa Massacre 1937
2. The Jerusalem Massacre 1937
3. The Balad al-Sheikh Massacre 1939
4. The Haifa Massacre 1939
5. The Haifa Massacre 1947
6. The Abbasiya Massacre 1947
7. The Al-Khisas Massacre 1947
8. The Bab al-Amud Massacre 1947
9. The Jerusalem Massacre 1947
10. The Sheikh Burek Massacre 1947
11. The Al-Sheik Break Massacre 1947
12. The Jaffa Massacre 1948
13. The Al-Saraya Al-Arabeya Massacre 1948
14. The Semiramis Massacre 1948
15. The Ramla Massacre 1948
16. The Yazur Massacre 1948
17. The Tabra Tulkarem Massacre 1948
18. The Jerusalem Massacre 1948
19. The Deir Yassin Massacre 1948
20. The Abu Shusha Massacre 1948
21. The Tantura Massacre 1948
22. The Lydda Massacre 1948
23. The Saliha Massacre 1948
24. The Al-Dawayima Massacre 1948
25. The Al-Husayniyya Massacre 1948
26. The Abu Kabir Massacre 1948
27. The Cairo Train Massacre, Haifa 1948
28. The Qalunya Massacre 1948
29. The Nasir Al-Din Massacre 1948
30. The Tiberias Massacre 1948
31. The Haifa Massacre 1948
32. The Ayn Al-Zaytoun Massacre
1948
33. The Safed Massacre 1948
34. The Beit Daras Massacre 1948
35. The Qibya Massacre 1953
36. The Khan Yunis Massacre 1956
37. The Jerusalem Massacre 1967
38. The Bahro Al Baquar Massacre 1972
39. The Sabra and Shatila Massacre 1982
40. The Al Aqsa Mosque Massacre 1990
41. The Ibrahimi Mosque Massacre 1994
42. The Jenin Refugee Camp Massacre 2002
43. The Gaza Massacre 2008
44. The Gaza Massacre 2009
45. The Gaza Massacre 2012
46. The Gaza Massacre 2014
47. The Gaza Border Massacre 2018
48. The Gaza Border Massacre 2019
49. The Gaza Wehda Street Massacre 2021
50. The Gaza Massacre 2022
51. The Jenin Refugee Camp Massacre 2023
52. The Gaza Genocide 2023
53. The Gaza Genocide 2024
54. The Gaza Genocide 2025
55. To be continued: A special thanks to the USA tax payers’ money, the Arab (Hypocrite/Corrupt) leaders and the Western governments for unconditionally supporting all the massacres/genocide above to make way for a terrorist gang to kill, maim, steal and then call itself a “jewish state”.
Now you know how Israel was made.
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Israeli terror bombings on al-Shati Camp (which before the Zionists’ genocide of Gaza was already one of the poorest camp, mostly skinny fishers trying to feed their families & earn a living as massive Israeli gunboats machine gunned, shelled and abducted them (https://t.me/Reality_Theories/25865)).
“What kind of weapons are these terrorist forces using in al-Shati Camp?
Unbelievable evil!!!”
https://x.com/MosabAbuToha/status/1966575528430752207
“Lately, they’ve been using MK-83 or MK-84 bombs on a massive scale. That must be it.
The MK-84 is a 900 kg unguided free-fall GP bomb. No precision, a real massacre. If that’s really it, in civilian areas, it’s simply insane.”
https://x.com/bluepenguin_wss/status/1966582163366613420
The IOF continues its systematic destruction of high-rise buildings in the northern Gaza Strip. 5 airstrikes were carried out in Shati’ camp, displacing hundreds.
This scorched-earth policy, particularly in Al-Shati camp, Tel Al-Hawa, and Al-Sabra, has created mass forced displacement while the IOF simultaneously escalated its deadly and repeated targeting of starving civilians seeking aid.
On Thursday, 10 family homes were targeted and destroyed in Shati’ camp, leading to multiple massacres including the annihilation of the Al-Hassi family.
On Friday, the IOF systematically destroyed numerous towers and apartment blocks in the Al-Nasr and Al-Rimal neighborhoods. Several massacres of families and aid seekers took place.
Today, intense belts of fire ravaged the Tal al-Hawa and Al-Sabra neighborhoods, where the Al-Nour Tower.
41 martyrs have ascended today, 29 of them in Gaza City.
Sep 13
Zionist Israel is in trouble. There was a vote in the UN that the two-state solution must be implemented. So, if Zionist Israel is in trouble, they kill at orders of magnitude. Today marked one of the bloodiest days in Gaza and the West Bank:
According to field reports up to 6:40 pm, dozens of sites were struck across Gaza City. Among the targets were schools (Al-Sitt Surah, Shahibar, Al-Aaliah), residential towers (Noor, Skeik, Harz), and key infrastructure including the old TV building and intelligence towers. Entire families’ homes were hit, including the Lahn family (4 martyrs) and the Laban family (2 martyrs), alongside many more casualties reported around the Al-Ghafri intersection.
The area west of Jerusalem Hospital in Tal al-Hawa was shelled repeatedly, suggesting either sustained bombardment or overlapping reports from multiple sources. By evening, the destruction spanned across neighborhoods from Beach camp to Tal al-Hawa and Al-Yarmouk, leaving behind collapsed homes, civilian deaths, and widespread displacement.
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My God https://t.co/vtPCfKBBbd
— Seyed Mohammad Marandi (@s_m_marandi) September 13, 2025
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These numbers are more in line with what we’ve seen from professional associations. The numbers of killed and injured that we quote, is from the Gaza authorities, and they count only those that called in at a hospital – those that can be counted physically.

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At dawn today, Yemen’s armed forces launched a Palestine-2 hypersonic ballistic missile targeting Israeli positions in Tel Aviv.
👉 The missile, equipped with a cluster warhead, struck sensitive sites in the area, causing widespread panic and forcing millions of settlers to seek shelter.
✍️ Yemen’s use of cluster warheads has become a strategic tactic in its missile campaign against Israeli targets. These warheads inflict not only physical damage but also psychological pressure, compelling Israel to deploy more personnel and defense systems to maintain high alert. Over time, this sustained strain is expected to erode the effectiveness of Israel’s air defense units.
— According to Brig. Gen. Yahya Saree, the operation was carried out in solidarity with the Palestinian people and as a retaliation for recent Israeli attacks on Yemen.
📊 Based on IWN data, this marks the 196th aerial operation by Yemen’s armed forces against Israeli positions in the occupied territories.
Sep 11
Since this morning, the IOF destroyed 18 buildings in the Gaza Strip, including 12 in Gaza City and Shati’ camp in the north.
Families are sleeping in the streets with their children after continued threats by the Israeli occupation to bomb residential blocks and shelters in western Gaza City.
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Watching the waves of displacement sweeping from the heart of Gaza to its southern edges, I am struck by the immense loss and suffering endured by the people. Here, far from my home, I am powerless—unable to document their stories, unable to give voice to their pain. The weight… pic.twitter.com/xeU1kHN390
— Abdulruhman Ismail (@a_abdulruhman) September 11, 2025
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Ansarullah Leader Al-Houthi delivers a speech:
🔴 Al-Houthi: Israeli attack on Qatar signal regime seeks to expand dominance across whole region
🔴 Yemeni Leader: Islamic nations does not lack resources but suffers from weakness, lack of vision and insight
🔴 Yemeni Leader expresses surprise at Lebanese govt. adopting US-Israeli dictates, trying to weaken defenses
🔴 Ansarullah Leader says they fired 38 missiles, drones at Israeli-occupied territories over past two weeks
🔴 Yemeni Leader says Israel’s recent aggression against Yemen is an act of bankruptcy, criminality, aggression
🔴 Al-Houthi: Israeli aggressions will not break will of our people but strengthen their resolve, determination
The brutal crime of the century against the Palestinians continue.
Sep 10
I will take a break from this thread today for a rest. Zionist Israel is bombing Yemen at this moment. To say the least, Zionist Israel is killing with impunity in Gaza and bombing anything still standing with dazed Gazans walked somewhere that they don’t know whereto, breaking down houses and sending Palestinians to live where no-one knows in the West Bank, cutting off and bulldozing any olive tree still to be found, the situation in Lebanon is on the verge of a type of civil war, and Mahmood says that the strike on Qatar will create a difference, most likely escalation.
Marwa Osman:
Lebanon’s PM Nawaf Salam and President Joseph Aoun think American “guarantees” will shield Lebanon from Israeli terrorism. What a joke! The biggest U.S. base in Qatar couldn’t stop Israel from striking at will, actually, it helped it strike at will. Yet they want us to believe Washington will save us? South Lebanon and the Bekaa know better. Our history taught us the only guarantee we’ve ever had is armed resistance. The PM and President can choose blindness, but we, the people of this land, see clearly, and we will never bow.
Sep 9
Spain, the Netherlands, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Slovenia, Iceland, and Norway impose sanctions on Ben Gvir and Smotrich. They both have been banned from entering schengen area.
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A drone struck another Global Sumud Flotilla boat. The fire was quickly brought under control, and no injuries were reported. It seems that these are small and act as warnings.
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Gaza Update Summary (September 03rd – September 09th, 2025)
🚨 The IOF dramatically escalated its war on Gaza City, initiating a new phase of systematic destruction aimed at forcing mass displacement. This week was defined by the demolition of entire residential towers and neighborhoods and relentless massacres against civilians awaiting aid.
Wednesday, September 3rd: The day saw widespread massacres as the IOF repeatedly targeted civilians awaiting aid, with dozens martyred near distribution points in Rafah and central Gaza. In Gaza City, intense shelling and strikes pounded Al-Sabra and Al-Zaytoun neighborhoods, while a drone strike on the Sheikh Radwan market resulted in a massacre of at least 7 martyrs. Entire families were annihilated, including the 10-member al-Jirisi family in a strike on Al-Nafaq Street and the Abu Aita family, whose home was bombed in Sheikh Radwan. 84 martyrs ascended, including 17 aid seekers and 3 from starvation.
Thursday, September 4th: The IOF’s brutal campaign focused on shelters for the displaced. A pre-dawn strike on a tent in Nusseirat massacred 7 members of the Abu al-Aish family as they slept. In Gaza City, strikes targeted tents near Al-Shifa Hospital and inside the Islamic University, burning displaced families alive. The IOF also demolished the College of Science and Technology in Khan Younis and carried out another massacre in Al-Tuffah, killing 8 members of the al-Mashharawi family and others. 69 martyrs ascended, including 6 aid seekers and 3 from starvation.
Friday, September 5th: A new phase of destruction began in Gaza City with the systematic demolition of high-rise buildings. The IOF destroyed the large Mashharawi residential tower near Ansar junction, rendering hundreds homeless. IOF operations intensified across northern Gaza, with continuous demolition of homes in Jabalia and Al-Siftawi using explosive robots. Meanwhile, civilians awaiting aid were massacred again near “Zikim” and in central Gaza. 68 martyrs ascended, including 31 aid seekers and 5 from starvation.
Saturday, September 6th: The demolition of Gaza City’s skyline continued with terrifying intensity as the IOF destroyed the Susi Tower in the Al-Sina’a area. A horrific massacre was committed against aid seekers near “Zikim,” where IOF shelling and gunfire resulted in at least 19 martyrs and wounded over 70 others. Throughout the day, IOF drones and artillery pounded Sheikh Radwan, while strikes targeted tents near Al-Shifa Hospital and in Mawasi Khan Younis, killing and injuring displaced families. 87 martyrs ascended, including 31 aid seekers and 5 from starvation.
Sunday, September 7th: The assault on Gaza City’s infrastructure peaked with the demolition of more residential towers and civilian sites. The massive Al-Ru’ya tower was completely destroyed, alongside the Al-Jazeera Club, which was sheltering displaced families. A series of devastating strikes targeted homes and a school in Al-Daraj, Al-Tuffah, and Sheikh Radwan, annihilating families like the al-Nakhala and killing dozens. The IOF also targeted a mosque minaret in Deir al-Balah, adding to hundreds of mosques destroyed by the IOF in the Gaza Strip. 67 martyrs ascended, including 14 aid seekers and 6 from starvation.
Monday, September 8th: The IOF continued its systematic destruction of residential towers in Gaza City, demolishing the Al-Salam and Matar towers near Al-Samer junction. In northern Gaza, a major ambush in Jabalia resulted in the killing of four IOF soldiers after their tank was targeted with an explosive device. The IOF also announced the killing of four soldiers in the incident. Meanwhile, relentless shelling and demolition operations continued across northern Gaza, particularly in Sheikh Radwan. 83 martyrs ascended, including 14 aid seekers.
Tuesday, September 9th: The IOF continued its campaign of destruction, demolishing several residential buildings in the Al-Mukhaymarat area and issuing new evacuation orders for towers near Al-Shifa Hospital. A horrific massacre took place in Al-Shati camp, where a strike on the al-Hasri family home left over 20 people buried under the rubble. 52 martyrs ascended.
Over 510 martyrs ascended between September 3rd and September 9th, including 105 aid seekers and 23 from starvation, 700 days into the genocide.
Sep 8
Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur for Palestine, confirms that the ‘Family’ vessel of the Gaza Flotilla was struck by a drone near the port of Tunis.
The Israeli drone dropped an ‘explosive device’ onto the boat, causing it to burst into flames — but the payload was not very large, and the crew managed to evacuate the boat.
Tunisia: We did not see anything, we did not hear anything, nothing ever happened (just after their firefighters fought the fires on the boat).

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Spain is about the only country in Europe that actually speaks out against genocide and taking active steps.
Spain will promote international recognition of Palestine & presents 9 measures — Pedro Sanchez, PM https://t.me/TheIslanderNews/55466
Steps include:
× embargo on Israel,
× ban on mil. purchases & ships with fuel through ports,
× denial into airspace of Spain,
× ban of figures involved,
× humanitarian aid
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Yemen: Yesterday, while the Israeli media reported 3 Yemeni drones, AnsarAllah reports 13. Today the Yemeni military reports: https://t.me/YemeniMilitaryy/525
Yemeni Military: Again… drones from Yemen penetrate the occupied territories on their way to the target.
Occupation media: We are under a large-scale attack from Yemen.
Yemeni Military: The attack is targeting the Dimona nuclear reactor. We didn’t hit this time, but next time we will strike the reactor directly. Once again, our aircraft (they mean drones and missiles) penetrate the skies of the occupied territories.
Sep 6
Mass protest for hostage release rocks Tel Aviv as war reaches 700-day mark
Israeli protesters flooded Tel Aviv on Saturday night, demanding their government stop the war and bring the hostages home NOW.
They warn a ground invasion of Gaza city could be a death sentence for those still alive.
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700 days of Israeli-American genocide in Gaza: Nearly 65,000 killed, 2 million starving, homes and belongings obliterated, hospitals and clinics destroyed, and the tragedy continues.
Sep 5
Gaza Channels are beginning to report massive bombing all over the strip. https://t.me/enemywatch/41222
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In Lebanon: The resistance is refusing to open dialogue on its weapons until Israel withdraws from south Lebanon and ends its daily attacks
Hezbollah and allies withdraw from govt session on disarmament planhttps://t.co/iNR0zdpxaJ
— The Cradle (@TheCradleMedia) September 5, 2025
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The unbearable carnage continues.
The carnage and bloodthirsty brutality continues in Gaza and the West Bank as well. And then, Zionist Israel does bombing runs when it pleases them .. on Lebanon, Syria. There is action in Iraq, but it is hard to understand it, as the whole region is completely destabilized and consists of bands of killers, usually with some ‘religious’ fervor of some flavor.
Marwa Osman: I am not sorry for sharing this photo.
They rip life from the womb, US-made bombs dropped by Israeli terrorists tearing unborn children from their mothers’ embrace before their first breath in Gaza.

Mohammed El-Kurd
@m7mdkurd
You know, the killing is so relentless that you almost get used to it. A classroom of children killed every single day. You write about it, you read about it. Someone’s mother digs herself up from the rubble. Someone’s father is split in half. There was a video of wounded man using his arms to crawl across the road. Another man is so hungry he weeps. You read the stories. Each one is more brutal than the next and somehow the brutality is banal. You are numb, for better or for worse. But there are moments in the day, maybe just a singular moment, when you actually contend with the magnitude of the tragedy, when you are able to quantify the loss and in those moments you feel crushed—there are no adjectives. There are people mourning their lovers. Students missing their teachers. Orphans. Widowers. Grandmothers who look just like your own. I cry when I think about the people who were martyred just hours before they could apologize for something, or confess to something, or have something to eat. Or the slain who believed they would survive. And as the rancid rotten people of the world pontificate and debate the definition of genocide, you are at war with yourself, trying desperately to ignore the material meaning of the word. You read the news and you read the news and it is so hard to accept that the dead, the thousands of people they are slaughtering, they are your loved ones and your loved ones’ loved ones. This isn’t just a bad dream.
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Multiple Zionist airstrikes targeted the areas of Aadloun and Ansariyeh this evening, escalating tensions in southern Lebanon.

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There was a serious drone attack on Unifil in Lebanon.
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Israeli media report that the military is struggling to secure enough reservists for a planned invasion of Gaza City, with hundreds refusing duty amid a deepening “crisis of trust” between soldiers and Netanyahu’s government.
Around 60,000 call-up orders were issued, but turnout is feared low as many reservists—already serving hundreds of days since October 2023—reject extending service. Haaretz said hundreds threatened not to show up, citing hostages’ safety, exhaustion, and doubts over the war’s purpose. Some accused Netanyahu of prolonging the conflict for political survival. Israeli commanders warned the offensive risks hostages and soldiers, while reservists declared the plan “illegal” and vowed disobedience.
Reports say 40–50% of units are not reporting, and over 10,000 soldiers suffer PTSD. With Gaza City still sheltering hundreds of thousands, Israel continues its assault, which has killed over 63,600 Palestinians and injured more than 160,000.
Sep 2

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Sep 1
After strong winds forced the flotilla back to Barcelona’s port on Sunday, the Global Sumud Flotilla set sail once more on Monday evening from the Black Port toward Gaza, as ship horns echoed and activists chanted: “Free, Free Palestine.”
I am not sure yet how many vessels and have seen different reports, but it could be as high as 40.
Forza #SumudFlotilla: you are moral warriors, where States remain inactive. And complicit.
I am with you, and with all those standing for justice, human rights and dignity.
We build peace with peace, not weapons.
Gaza is not alone. pic.twitter.com/z89Df2XBJO
— Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur oPt (@FranceskAlbs) August 31, 2025
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The International Association of Genocide Scholars (IAGS) overwhelmingly voted in favor of a resolution (https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS-Resolution-on-Gaza-FINAL.pdf) stating that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and that its actions meet the ‘legal definition of genocide.’
Aug 30
Every single child dying of starvation in Gaza had a pre-existing condition, according to the Israeli press.

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The Freedom Flotilla is once again setting sail: Dozens of boats from 44 countries are carrying aid, food, medicine, and doctors to Gaza, aiming to break through 18 years of Israeli siege.
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Hamas rises spectacularly.
Hebrew sources concede that Hamas fighters are rising from beneath the rubble like ghosts, hitting occupation forces with precision kill-shots, and melting back into the underground before a counterstrike can land.
This is Gaza’s insurgent warfare at full force, pre-set kill zones, tunnel-fed strike teams, and fire patterns calibrated to shred any unit foolish enough to push forward.
Every street is a choke point, every ruin a sniper’s nest, every approach a death corridor. The occupier advances under the illusion of control, only to be cut down and left grasping at an enemy that refuses to be fixed, broken, or erased.
Thomas Keith on X
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After roughly four hours of intense combat and successive resistance ambushes in Al-Zaytoun neighborhood, zionist sources report an #IOF withdrawal from the #Gaza City area.
At least one invading soldier is confirmed to have been killed, and at least 11 others wounded. No new information has been published regarding the four zionist soldiers who reportedly went missing in the area. These missing soldiers may have been captured.
Throughout the battle, IOF helicopters took heavy gunfire, and the area witnessed heavy shelling by resistance forces along with close-quarters combat.
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Yemen’s Prime Minister and members of his cabinet have attained martyrdom in the recent Israeli attack.
The Presidency of the Republic in Sana’a has announced the martyrdom of Mujahid Prime Minister Ahmed Ghaleb Al-Rahwi, head of the Government of Change and Construction, along with several of his ministerial companions, following last Thursday’s aggression.
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The US blocks Palestinian leaders from attending the upcoming United Nations General Assembly, citing American law that prohibits recognition of Palestine’s statehood. This is the meeting where the EU countries and others promised that they would declare Palestine as a State.
RAMALLAH, August 29, 2025 (WAFA) – The Palestinian Presidency expressed deep regret and astonishment at the decision of the U.S. Department of State not to grant visas to the Palestinian delegation scheduled to participate in the upcoming United Nations General Assembly meetings in September.
The Presidency stressed that this decision stands in clear contradiction to international law and the UN Headquarters Agreement, particularly since the State of Palestine is an observer member of the United Nations.
It called on the U.S. administration to reconsider and reverse its decision, reaffirming Palestine’s full commitment to international law, UN resolutions, and obligations toward peace, as conveyed in President Mahmoud Abbas’s letters to world leaders, including U.S. President Donald Trump.
More at The Cradle.
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Yesterday morning the Israeli regime has carried out air and artillery strikes targeting multiple locations across the Gaza Strip. These include:
– Omar Al-Mukhtar market in eastern Gaza City
– Al-Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza
– Block 10 in Al-Bureij refugee camp
– Al-Shati refugee camp in western Gaza
– Al-Shuhada Street in Gaza City
– Southern Gaza City
– Northern areas of Khan Yunis
– Coastal zones of Rafah
▪️According to local sources, yesterday’s attacks by the Israeli military resulted in the deaths of at least 76 Palestinians and injured 298 others. This brings the total number of casualties in Gaza to over 62,895 dead and more than 158,927 wounded.
Since then, the numbers have changed. The official toll since October 7th 2023, is 63,371 killed and 159,835 injured with many more having died while trapped under the rubble and not countable.
✍️ The humanitarian catastrophe unfolding in Gaza is a direct result of relentless Israeli military aggression and war crimes, which has devastated civilian infrastructure and inflicted unimaginable suffering on the population. With over 62,000 Palestinians killed and nearly 160,000 wounded, the toll is staggering—especially among children, who account for a heartbreaking proportion of the casualties.
👉 The deliberate targeting of homes, markets, refugee camps, and hospitals has not only shattered families but also crippled Gaza’s healthcare system, leaving survivors without access to basic medical care. The UN’s declaration of famine underscores the severity of the crisis, as hundreds of thousands now face starvation due to the blockade and destruction of food systems. Aid workers and humanitarian convoys have been attacked, and even attempts to deliver life-saving supplies are met with violence. These actions, widely condemned by human rights organizations, reflect a systematic disregard for international law and the sanctity of civilian life.
‼️ The world must not remain silent in the face of such atrocities—justice demands accountability, and the people of Gaza deserve protection, dignity, and peace.
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Targeting of aid workers is still being captured on camera. There is a reduction of news from within Gaza since the killing of five journalists, cameramen and support.
The Israeli regime does not adhere to any international laws or humanitarian principles and continues its acts of terror and commits war crimes against civilians in the Gaza Strip. Is there truly no one in the world to chain this brutal regime?!!!
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The zionist attacks do not cease. Over the past 24 hours, they’ve attacked Yemen, continual raids on the West Bank, Southern Syria and Lebanon. Tension is everywhere regarding another attack on Iran and everyone expects that.
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Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan announced that Turkey is closing its airspace and ports to Israeli aircraft and ships, and severing all economic and trade ties with Israel over its genocidal war on Gaza. (We will of course believe this when we see it.)
Despite the announcement of Turkey cutting its trade relations with Israel, 3 Turkish commercial ships arrived yesterday at the port of Haifa and are still docked inside the harbor.
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Let foreign journalists in.
Enough blockade, including on freedom of information! https://t.co/ytsjGqpT0t— Francesca Albanese, UN Special Rapporteur oPt (@FranceskAlbs) August 27, 2025
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Prof Marandi takes Mario Newfal to school, who was wise enough to be courteous.
Made? Ah! Let’s not forget Truman’s payback for the 2 million dollar cash bribe that got his “tuchus” elected in 1948…He “recognized” the so-called state… Bribes played a large part in the operation zion… bribes and good buddy “loans” and various sorts of “leverage”…they still do, more than ever…