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DestinationUnkown
ParticipantHello Nico Cost, nice to hear from you. I apologize that my reply rhythm might be delayed, but rest assured that I will answer most of your valuable comments, on this thread and the others. I just delayed one more day here, because I wanted to try the 2nd experiment which I hadn’t been doing. Things seem to be opening up pretty fast, so what I write now may be short lived.
How do we touch other people’s lives here on this forum? On other word-press forums, statistics show how many posts and how many views. Here we know nothing about views, only number of posts and number of voices. Views are only evident by comments. Here I made the only comment. On my thread, Philosophical Underpinnings, you made the only comment. Are we touching the others? – But one is enough.
We make some statements, either as a proposal, or as “our truth”. Even my proposals work in my life. Those are our gifts. Then if the other engages with it, that is how it is received.
BE SURE; I AM RECEIVING YOUR GIFTS.
I followed your advice on the day that I saw it, more than a week ago. (The first one was enough so I did not even read the throat chakra, but I will do it tonight. I did.) I altered the first meditation because I thought it mistaken to have expectations. So, I omitted the starry sky and the shower of love from the universe. Now reading the 2nd instructions you do say, “The art in meditating is to expect nothing and not try to direct anything.” (No visualizations.)
I would now say that all of my life, meditation has had expectations, because spiritual teachers prescribe it as a path toward enlightenment (or awakening, or whatever you want to call it). Now I see; that my meditations for decades have always been wrecked, by the way in which the teacher presented them.
I have done your process every day, twice a day and sometimes back-to-back, for 3 times in a day. It is my experiment now. The latest is that I sit in my favorite chair, and I am already in “stage two”, just by sitting. And I do not use any music. Music is a timer (8 min), but without it I sit one hour, and then this morning 70 minutes. I have no urgency to get up. But that in no way makes me an advanced meditation student. I would say I am not meditating at all. I am observing the process of meditation (and “not-preferring thoughts”). It’s not the same.
WHAT IS MEDITATION THEN?
These are just my definitions out of rationality, not from any ‘spiritual transmission”. 1. many people think contemplation is meditation. Like every translator of Marcus Aurelius titled his book “Meditations”. It is not! It is contemplations. (I like that book, one of my favorites.) But not our subject here.
2. Many people think visualization is meditation. You used it, visualizing a starry sky, and the thrilling feeling of that vastness against my smallness. You suggested to label it as the love of the universe showering down on me. Yes, maybe that would be a doorway into a great feeling, (but is that meditation or spirituality?)
3. The only one word in English or any other human language that approaches meditation is “SILENCE”. It is a NO-THING. It has no qualities. No concepts, no languages nor communications. (We could claim resonance.) There is no movement, nor any space/time continuum. So, no location, non-temporal, no light no dark. Nothing from the material realm about it, no limits from the speed of light.
I propose that Silence IS what some people call “the spiritual realm”. MEDITATION makes the claim that you can apprehend that. BUT HOW?
AND WHY? One way to simplify why, it is to say, why – because it is happening. I am doing it now. Maybe that is enough.
How is the instruction: Try to keep your mind as empty as possible. Don’t resist thoughts, but also let them fly by as you focus on your breathing. But we have to look at the how thoughts can “fly-by”?
WHAT FLOWS THROUGH YOUR MIND? And why is it different than what flows through my mind? We have to conclude that there is a built-in preference mechanism in each of us, that focuses our individual thoughts. But we (I) said silence has no qualities. I am going to propose that we cannot have silence as a preference, because without qualities, there is nothing to visualize, no handles to grab hold of it, and no way to set it up as our priority. So, the only way to get to silence is to NOT PREFER everything else.
A thought comes up – I don’t prefer that. A thought comes up – I don’t prefer that. A thought comes up – I don’t prefer that. The process is a negation, the skill is how to not to pick-up a thought. Or since they come pretty fast, how to “set-down” a thought. It is not a very direct route toward Silence.
Anyhow, without any expectations, it shouldn’t be too upsetting.
I should really stop here. But I’ll add one supposition. Maybe there could come a point where you can step in and out of silence at will? Like going through a door. Is that what happens for you? For instance. I claim I can step in and out of emotional reaction at will. No more difficult than going through an open door. It is so easy, that I have no fear of letting emotions play; and my life is richer for it, not constrained. Reactions are weightless for me; they have no impact on my being and they don’t automatically create actions, (that I later regret). (Other people’s repeated reactions can be annoying).
Like I said: I just started with the second offering, so we’ll see if that changes anything?
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DestinationUnkown
ParticipantHello Nico Cost, and thanks for these two good questions. I’ll try to be clear.
You might say that the next step in conscious evolution is hiding behind what you think you already know. Even what you “know” about the spiritual world. But yet you cannot live in just pure “unknowing”. It is too scary, and that is built into the human mechanism. So life is a balance between what I call expansion and grounding. Expansion is not knowing and experiencing a flow of the new. Grounding is returning to old paradigms, and claiming they are still true, or even foundational axioms. This flux is life, and I don’t condemn it. Each has his (or her) own level of adventurousness.
As we relax within ourselves, we can let more of the new in. Is meditation a key to “relax within ourselves”? I’m not so sure; when you finish your session, nothing in your mental make-up has changed. Meditation is the skipping over of the mental field. So after, it regenerates the same life picture. Sometimes there is a great yearning to return to that awakening moment. That very yearning is a block to get there.
How I have progressed, is by finding the thought-to-feeling linkages and experimenting with them. In a way, I am moderating reaction to circumstances, to any circumstances. That is my way to relax within myself. I don’t suppress emotions, and I can even let them play out in the theater of life. But I also know that they are weightless, and they do not control my actions. My actions are directed by what I define as my objectives. If my objective is to “get-along” with someone, I won’t react to their impolite attacks, (if they make any). And maybe they do “need” a dressing down? I trust myself to decide in the moment.
Therefore conscious evolution is an iterative process, not the “big-bang” theory of awakening. That expectation is a very damaging aspect of spiritual-speak.
________________> Time can go much faster or slower in the spiritual realm.
Time as a raw concept can do whatever we want to justify. Let it go up and down, in and out, spiral, circulate, oscillate, bend, fall off the edge of the universe. No big deal. But humans have a particular window into time.
It is called memory. Without the memory of one second ago, humans can have no sense of time. We are talking about human life and human society, so let’s stay in that window. Would we be an amoeba or a bacteria without memory, always in the present? So instead of asking what is time; We should be asking what is memory? I have no idea what it is. But it is the essence of humanness, and of the world as we picture it.
Human awareness has another trait. You can best notice a difference in a moving medium, delta-p or delta-t, temperature rising or falling, anger rising or falling, an object coming or going. What has no reference of movement, can give just limited, or no awareness to itself. The spiritual world is said to have no material content. Then what is there in the spirit world to vibrate or alter position? By the way, if there is no time, there is no space. If nothing moves from here to there in time, a here to there is not evident. It doesn’t move in space either. So the posited spirit world is located in “no-space” / “no-time”. It has no location. You might say that is everywhere? (Or nowhere.) Both those would be wrong. Or you might claim while it exists nowhere, it is everywhere accessible. That is a nice twist.
OK, BACK TO THE FIRST QUESTION
Looking at the things you write, I would say that we have both arrived at many similar conclusions of what is wisdom. What works in both of our lives. I say it is simply my own process, that has been put into motion, (basically by not comparing to anyone else). If I tell someone what I have done, it is very straight-forward, with no secret or esoteric ingredients. They will be able to find their own process.
Perhaps you are saying your revelations have been a gift of a spiritual process, that you have engaged in, and has born fruit. Millions of seekers meditate and yearn. Some of them are satisfied by the result. Others just use it to relieve stress. I have no stress. Pain or discomfort maybe, but it doesn’t translate into stress. (Not yet anyway.)
Thanks
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DestinationUnkown
ParticipantI am new here, so what can a baby say about these important issues? Well, I did look around a bit. I reached the very first post on Feb 6 2023, where it was said: “welcome to poets, ranters, drive-by posters, musicians, bible-thumpers, Larch, historians, astrologers, madmen, recipe makers, and whoever escaped me.” (SO I AM IN THAT GROUP!)
Basic rationality does not require a PhD specialty, nor tons of research and facts. If you look at a big enough picture to see most of the assumptions, the trajectory becomes more than evident. That does not mean you can reverse it, or know some solution. Generally, a wider context shows more options, but they still need to be implemented and tested.
Simple Rationality is a good way to address things, because nobody is left out for the lack of expertise. Everybody can follow the simple trajectories. Other discussion techniques are to add more complexity, more details, and more expertise. Very tiring, and they don’t get anywhere either. They just try to shut you up, with their steam roller technique. (Yeah, there can be details.)
We spend our time on what we define as giving the most payback. Many thousands of people look at current events, each from their own viewpoint.
Much of this site seems to be an aggregator of events, maybe looking behind the standard narratives. There are all kinds of angles behind there. I don’t think we aggregate many first person accounts. If we did, we wouldn’t believe them, as too invested in their own perspective. So we are aggregators of the aggregators, or those who claim expertise. Yes they too have a viewpoint. A lot of it we deem ugly. What we realize is that life is only a commodity, and that wholesale killing is one way to distribute and use-up that commodity. Many heartily reject that observation, but it is in-our-face, nevertheless.
Depending on your intensity, you may be making a chronicle of atrocities. That stems from a belief in a payback from these chronicles. WHAT IS THAT PAYBACK? OK, now I know about some of these unacceptable, and on up to atrocities. What am I going to do about it? What is your payback from telling me?
Yes, I believe in being informed, but if I already know it 10 times, need I know it 100 times?
WHAT IS IN YOUR FACE; IS THE HIDDEN PERSCRIPTION OF CIVILIZATION, AS WE KNOW IT. But now it has slipped out, and is no longer hidden. I have called it the Euro-Centric view. Yet many in denial avert their gaze from the obvious. What proxy wars tell us is not about the combatants, who accepted the money. It is about the sponsors, who are responsible for, and justify every atrocity. What do the populations of these sponsors have to say about it. Very subdued if audible at all. No peace movements. Of course, here we are on globalsouth.co. What is our payback, and is there another way?
Am I allowed to discuss this without having any alternative?
One angle is to purify our language. If 99 Jewish people are up to some scheme and one Jewish person is not involved, it is not THE JEWS who are doing this. Collective nouns skip over the possible solutions, whether it is “the Muslims”, or “the Christians” or “the Jews”, (or everybody else).
Why do we give notoriety to 100 rabid jackals, but not even to ONE rational voice? For instance, Shlomo Sand is an Israeli emeritus professor of history at the Tel Aviv University, I think for 40 years. His books all deny the Zionist narrative. I think he is still active, and teaching. Who are his Israeli students? Why don’t we give voice to alternative views like his? Couldn’t changes be energized from the inside?
Here is one of his most popular books:
thanks.
DestinationUnkown
ParticipantHello Nico Cost. I do not know your work, but nice to meet you. Very Strange: my first couple of hours after finding this global-south web site, and I see two of your posts, this one and the one on Islam. You have been here a year, me a day.
With regard to this experiment, I would say I am very opinionated. But still, I followed your advice, to do it first and then write about it. I have sat with it a several times. I explain to myself that I have a long (enough) experience with these matters. “Enough” means that what I have determined, consistently “works” in the laboratory of my life.
I am quite sure that, with myself and others, (and it may be anecdotal), that my feeling sense changes the same MOMENT I change my definition. Tracts are not welded into your brain by xx years of habit, but by refusing to change that old definition (that belief). It is normal and I don’t denigrate it. It is the balance between expanding and grounding. You cannot live only by expanding. You have to make up a story about reality and be “grounded’ in it. You have to pretend that you know where you are, or you feel topsy-turvy.
Why do people meditate, or seek spirituality? The answer is invariable that their life is defined as deficient.
Meditation’s origin is your negative self-definition and judgments about this stage of your life. If everything was well, why would you deviate from it? Well, in ancient spiritual lore, most people probably did live pretty miserably. Think about it. Hunter-gatherers did not have a surplus that they could store. If food got scarce, they migrated or followed the herd. Since there was no wealth, they didn’t need to fight over it, they were more egalitarian. (They fought over other things.)
Agrarian society ushered in the surplus, (wealth) and men of power were born to confiscate, control and distribute it. That was a beginning of subjugation, and then; of spiritual seeking for a way out. People make up excuses about it. Some will even say that “source” (God) sends us adversity so that humanity can grow by contemplating it. WHAT BUNK, but it’s comforting to many people.
So many spiritual teachings swear that life is suffering, including the base tenant of Buddhism. I have talked directly (face to face) with a 100 modern spiritual teachers. Many feed you the image that the strongest desire, (always yearning), to get out of your “suffering” will bring enlightenment. How “counterproductive” to life can you get? They teach pure poison.
If you could learn to work with your verbal definitions, or someone would teach it, (your verbal model of reality), all contradictions and so-called stress could dissolve, or at least be reduced. As you quoted above “Busy-Busy, or stress is only in the mental field, and it is an illusion.” Mental field is not a mystical thing, it is only your verbal model of reality. It is in our societal agreements, our cultural stereotype of accepted behavior. So as an individual, if you stop creating “stress” with distorted definitions, (even as society keeps reinforcing contradiction), there will be no need to resolve anything, and no need to meditate or seek any way-out.
I doubt of such an ingrained narrative, such as honoring spiritual-lore, can be explained in a comment. I could easily write a book about it. To me it is all “borrowed-thought” (even from the masters), that may jump-start you to “somewhere”. But you can’t jump in the middle of someone else’s life process. It will always be foreign. You really have to build on your own process from the bottom up. It is not all that difficult, but we now live in a world of short-cuts.
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