Home – Global Blog › Forums › The Hearty Salon › 19. Krishnamurti’s DISSOLUTION OF THE ORDER OF THE STAR, August 3 1929
Tagged: Krishnamurti, order of the star, organized spirituality, pathless land, psychological development, psychological understanding
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DestinationUnkown.
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February 5, 2025 at 01:29 #51409
DestinationUnkown
ParticipantThere is a great quote from the home page this week from GlobalSouth: “We’re working with those who consciously and with intelligence work for the betterment of humankind, who start in their own backyards, and can demonstrate their care for their own as well as the wider world.”
Actually, all my 19 postings, including this one, suggest acting for the betterment of humankind, and starting in your own backyard. Why is there no evidence of it, no results? First, we must presume a belief that it is IMPOSSIBLE, so just as well leave it alone. Second, I may think that I already know my own backyard, but I really only know a few things about it. I have no self-knowledge.
I shared a couple months back that I was introduced to Krishnamurti through this Global South web site. People might wonder, what kind of a “teaching” did I come upon? So let’s take a look.
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On opening day of the annual Star Camp in Ommen, Holland, Krishnamurti dissolved the Order before 3000 members.
Quote:
WE are going to discuss this morning the dissolution of the Order of the Star. Many people will be delighted, and others will be rather sad. It is a question neither for rejoicing nor for sadness, because it is inevitable, as I am going to explain. 2,600 words
You may remember the story of how the devil and a friend of his were walking down the street, when they saw ahead of them a man stoops down and pick up something from the ground, look at it, and put it away in his pocket. This friend said to the devil, “What did that man pick up?” “He picked up a piece of Truth,” said the devil. “That is a very bad business for you, then”, said his friend. “Oh, not at all,” the devil replied, “I am going to help him to organize it.”
I maintain that Truth is a pathless land, and you cannot approach it by any path whatsoever, by any religion, by any sect. That is my point of view, and I adhere to that absolutely and unconditionally. Truth, being limitless, unconditioned, unapproachable by any path whatsoever, cannot be organized; nor should any organization be formed to lead or to coerce people – along any particular path. If you first understand that, then you will see how impossible it is to organize a belief. A belief is purely an individual matter, and you cannot and must not organize it. If you do it becomes dead, crystallized; it becomes a creed, a sect a religion, to be imposed on others. This is what everyone throughout the world is attempting to do: Truth is narrowed down and made a plaything for those who are weak, for those who are only momentarily discontented.
Truth cannot be brought down, rather the individual must make the effort to ascend to it. You cannot bring the mountain-top to the valley. If you would attain to the mountain-top you must pass through the valley, climb the steps, unafraid of the dangerous precipices. You must climb towards the Truth, it cannot be “stepped down” or organized for you. Interest in ideas is mainly sustained by organizations, but organizations only awaken interest from without. Any interest, which is not born out of love of Truth for its own sake, but aroused by an organization, is of no value. The organization becomes a framework into which its members can conveniently fit. They no longer strive after Truth or the mountain-top, but rather carve for themselves a convenient niche in which they put themselves, or let the organization place them, and consider that the organization will thereby lead them to Truth.
So that is the first reason, from my point of view, why the Order of the Star should be dissolved. In spite of this, you will probably form other Orders you will continue to belong to, other organizations searching for Truth. I do not want to belong to any organization of a spiritual kind, please understand this. I would make use of an organization which would take me to London, for example; this is quite a different kind of organization, merely mechanical, like the post office or the telegraph. I would use a motor car or a steamship to travel, these are only physical mechanisms which have nothing whatever to do with spirituality. Again, I maintain that no organization can lead man to spirituality.
If an organization be created for this purpose, it becomes a crutch, a weakness, a bondage, and must cripple the individual, and prevent him from growing, from establishing his uniqueness, which lies in the discovery of himself, for himself, of that absolute unconditioned Truth. So that is another reason why I have decided, (as I happen to be the Head of the Order), to dissolve it. No one has persuaded me to this decision.
This is no magnificent deed, because I do not want followers, and I mean this. The moment you follow someone you cease to follow Truth. I am not concerned whether you pay attention to what I say or not. I want to do a certain thing in the world and I am going to do it with unwavering concentration. I am concerning myself with only one essential thing; to set man free. I desire to free him from all cages, from all fears, and not to found religions, new sects, nor to establish new theories or new philosophies. Then you will naturally ask me why I go the world over, continually speaking.
I will tell you for what reason I do this; not because I desire a following, not because I desire a special group or special disciples. (How men love to be different from their fellow-men, however ridiculous, absurd and trivial their distinctions may be! I do not want to encourage that absurdity.) I have no disciples, no apostles, either on earth or in the realm of spirituality.
Nor is it the lure of money, nor the desire to live a comfortable life, which attracts me. If I wanted to lead a comfortable life I would not come to this Camp, nor live in a damp country! (Holland) I am speaking frankly because I want this settled once and for all. I do not want these childish discussions year after year.
One newspaper reporter, who interviewed me, considered it a magnificent act to dissolve an organization in which there were thousands and thousands of members. To him it was a great act because, he said: “What will you do afterwards, how will you live? You will have no following people will no longer listen to you.” If there are only five people who will listen, who will live, who have their faces turned towards eternity, it will be sufficient. Of what use is it to have thousands who do not understand, who are fully embalmed in prejudice, who do not want the new, but would rather translate the new to suit their own sterile, stagnate selves? If I speak strongly, please do not misunderstand me, it is not through lack of compassion. If you go to a surgeon for an operation, IS IT NOT kindness on his part to operate? Even if he causes you pain? So, in like manner, if I speak straightly, it is not through lack of real affection —— on the contrary.
As I have said, I have only one purpose: to make man free, to urge him towards freedom, to help him to break away from all limitations, for that alone will give him eternal happiness, will give him the unconditioned realization of the self.
Because I am free, unconditioned, whole — not a part, not the relative, but the whole Truth that is eternal — I desire those, who seek to understand me, to be free; not to follow me, not to make out of me a cage, which will become a religion, a sect. Rather should they be free from all fears — from the fear of religion, from the fear of salvation, from the fear of spirituality, from the fear of love, from the fear of death, from the fear of life itself. As an artist paints a picture because he takes delight in that painting, because it is his self-expression, his glory, his well-being, so I do this and not because I want anything from anyone.
You are accustomed to authority, or to the atmosphere of authority, which you think will lead you to spirituality. You think and hope that another can, by his extraordinary powers — a miracle — transport you to this realm of eternal freedom which is Happiness. Your whole outlook on life is based on that authority.
You have listened to me for three years now, without any change taking place except in the very few. Now analyze what I am saying, be critical so that you may understand thoroughly, fundamentally. When you look for an authority to lead you to spirituality, you are bound automatically to build an organization around that authority. By the very creation, of that organization, which, you think, will help this authority to lead you to spirituality, you are held in a cage.
If I talk frankly, please remember that I do so, not out of harshness, not out of cruelty, not out of the enthusiasm of my own purpose, but because I want you to understand what I am saying. That is the reason why you are here, and it would be a waste of time if I did not explain clearly, decisively, my point of view.
For eighteen years you have been preparing for this event, for the coming of the World-Teacher. For eighteen years you have organized, you have looked for someone who would give a new delight to your hearts and minds, who would transform your whole life, who would give you a new understanding; for someone who would raise you to a new plane of life, who would give you a new encouragement, who would set you free — and now look what is happening!
Please consider, reason with yourselves, and discover in what way that belief has made you different? —— not with the superficial difference of the wearing of a badge, which is trivially absurd. In what manner has such a belief swept away all the unessential things of life? That is the only way to judge: in what way are you freer, greater, more dangerous to every Society, which are based on the false and the unessential? In what way have the members of this organization of the Star become different?
As I said, you have been preparing for eighteen years for me. I do not care if you believe that I am the World-Teacher or not. That is of very little importance. Since you belong to the organization of the Order of the Star, you have given your sympathy, your energy, acknowledging that Krishnamurti is the World-Teacher — partially or wholly: wholly for those who are really seeking, only partially for those who are satisfied with their own half-truths.
You have been preparing for eighteen years, and look how many difficulties there are in the way of your understanding, how many questions, how many complications, how many trivial things. Your ‘prejudices, your fears, your authorities, your churches new and old — all these, I maintain, are a barrier to understanding. I cannot make myself any clearer than this. I do not want you to agree with me, I do not want you to follow me, I want you to understand what I am saying.
This understanding is necessary because your belief has not transformed you but only complicated you, and because you are still willing to face things as they are. You want to have your own gods — new gods instead of the old, new religions instead of the old, new forms instead of the old — all equally valueless, they’re all barriers, all limitations, all crutches. Instead of old spiritual distinctions you have new spiritual distinctions, instead of old worships you have new worships. You are all depending for your spirituality on someone else or something else, for your happiness, and although you have been preparing for me for all these years, when I say all these things are unnecessary, when I say that you must put them all away and look within yourselves for the enlightenment, for the glory, for the purification, and for the incorruptibility of the self, not one of you is willing to do it. There may be a few, but very, very few.
So why have an organization?
Why have false, hypocritical people following me, the embodiment or Truth? Please remember that I am not saying something harsh or unkind, but we have reached a situation when you must face things as they are. I said last year that I would not compromise. Very few listened to me then. This year I have made it absolutely clear. I do not know how many thousands throughout the world — members of the Order — have been preparing for me for eighteen years, and yet now they are not willing to listen unconditionally, wholly, to what I say.
So why have an organization?
As I said before, my purpose is to make men unconditionally free, for I maintain that the only spirituality is the incorruptibility of the self which is eternal, is the harmony between reason and love. This is the absolute, unconditioned Truth which is Life itself. I want therefore to set man free, rejoicing as the bird in the clear sky, unburdened, independent, ecstatic in that freedom. And I, for whom you have been preparing for eighteen years, now say that you must be free of all these things, free from your complications, your entanglements. For this you need not have an organization based on spiritual belief. Why have an organization for five or ten people in the world who do already understand, who are struggling, who have put aside all trivial things? And for the weak people, there can be no organization to help them to find the Truth, because Truth is in everyone; it is not far, it is not near; it is eternally here.
Organizations cannot make you free. No man from outside can make you free; nor can organized worship, nor self-sacrifice for a cause, make you free; nor can forming yourselves into an organization, nor throwing yourselves into works, make you free. You use a typewriter to write letters, but you do not put it on an altar and worship it. But that is what you are doing when organizations become your chief concern. “How many members are there in It?” That is the first question I am asked by all newspaper reporters. “How many followers have you? By their number we shall judge whether what you say is true or false.” I do not know how many there are. I am not concerned with that. As I said, if there were even one man who had been set free, that would be enough.
Again, you have the idea that only certain people hold the key to the Kingdom of Happiness. No one holds it. No one has the authority to hold that key. That key is your own self, and in the development and the purification and in the incorruptibility of that self alone is the Kingdom of Eternity.
So, you will see how absurd is the whole structure that you have built, looking for external help, depending on others for your comfort, for your happiness, for your strength. These can only be found within yourselves.
So why have an organization?
But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning and without an end, will walk together with a greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that real understanding there will be true friendship. Because of that true friendship — which you do not seem to know — there will be real cooperation on the part of each one. And this is not because of self-sacrifice for a cause, but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal. This is a greater thing than all pleasure, than all sacrifice.
These are some of the reasons why, after careful consideration for two years, I have made this decision. It is not from a momentary impulse. I have not been persuaded to it by anyone —— am not persuaded in such things. For two years I have been thinking about this, slowly, carefully, patiently, and I have now decided to disband the Order, as I happen to be its head. You can form other organizations and expect someone else to lead it. With that I am not concerned, not with creating new cages, or new decorations for those cages.
My only concern is to set man absolutely, unconditionally free.
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February 5, 2025 at 01:43 #51410
DestinationUnkown
ParticipantEvery religion, philosophy, or prescribed path to truth is based on the belief that talking about reality, (more thoughts), will eventually lead you to reality. Has that proven true, “for the multitudes”? If you carefully investigate many spiritual teacher’s “story”, (if they admit to it), their insight into reality happened when all the teaching and practices blew-up in their face, in the midst of confusion and despair. Perhaps reality can be apprehended only by directly observing “reality”, and not by thinking about it.
The all-abiding CONSCIOUSNESS may be true, but is it necessary?
And if so, for what and for whom is it necessary? It may be a need with Vedanta or the Buddhist, or with the individual who has a penchant for exotic cults; but is it essential for the ordinary human being just seeking liberation from conflict and sorrow?
If Consciousness is Life — and this is how we might see it — do I then still have to bother with a secondary term? Can I just use my attention, focusing on Life? For as little as I can avoid any awareness tied up in preoccupation with the word “Consciousness”, for what has been said about it, or in its name; it must be superfluous. On the other hand, if Consciousness is NOT the source of Life, but a mere fragment of it, a special discipline, or pattern of action, then it can’t even be true. It would be just another “ism”, an invention of the mind anxious and grasping to find security, or it may be merely an intellectual pastime, a hobby. In that case the question in the first sentence (is the concept consciousness necessary), would not arise at all. To enquire from a particular point of view, according to a certain-ism — whether Communism, Roman Catholicism, Vedanta, or any spirituality, it is immaterial — channeled in that single point of view, it is no enquiry at all; for what you will find, will in some way be dependent upon your premises, on your motives. Moreover, it is not Consciousness either. On the verbal level, if Consciousness is ✓ the “Nothingness of Life”, then what more is there is say! Then surely, the moment I utter one word about it — I have betrayed it, I have cut up the “Wholeness of Life” into my word pictures.
Truth has been twisted and stepped down, so that it was born, with its philosophies, its meditation exercises, enigma, riddles etc. It has been greedily snapped up in the twentieth century by the ennui intellectuals of the West, who are ever looking for some new stimulant, some new fad to cover up the barrenness of their minds and the emptiness of their hearts. And so, it came about that the search
“to be conscious of consciousness”
became a factor in increasing the confusion in a confused world. The person who really clearly perceives this, is at once free from all flirtation with words. Having seen that all intellectualization, all speculative philosophy is a betrayal of what is true, he will have none of it.
The positive approach is building towards a goal. The goal must come from borrowed thought, from touted wisdom. It is just another rote-formula to mimic.
There are no steps toward discovery.
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February 7, 2025 at 03:18 #51523
DestinationUnkown
ParticipantI’ll say a little bit more on how I see the “mind”. Mind has many functions, all of which may be deemed as connecting LIFE to this entity. Without Mind, is there awareness, the key to life? (I’ll let you answer that one.)
Is it Mind that runs bodily functions?
We know that man’s Mind has made-up symbolic systems to describe the sensations, (sights and sounds) that come from its presence on earth. (Or from looking through a telescope.) These symbols are principally language, counting, pictorial, music and ritual. They all come from the experiences garnered in the past, and are translated into thoughts to store them in memory. Past feelings are also stored in the memory. I believe that in order to be retrieved, a feeling must also have a thought-tag attached to it, so it looks like just another thought.
THOUGHT IS A VIRTUAL SYMBOLIC MODEL OF THE UNIVERSE. Thought has many uses, including how to manipulate things and ideas. There are other uses, but let’s just stay focused on this one for now. We can emphasize however, that all thought is the extent of yesterday’s limited knowledge.
Thought has built evolution, (continuous change), and it projects itself toward future projects. There is also evolution without thought, as evidenced by fossils. The use of Thought is critical, because it has built science and technology, and it allows complex supply chains that billions of urban residents must rely upon. Thought is the basic agreement structure of society.
All thought is also continuity, because it is tinged with yesterday it makes things and ideas look similar for extended periods of time.
THOUGHT IS ALSO COUPLED WITH AWARENESS. There is a tendency for awareness to be directed by thought, through the focusing of attention. But awareness is active with or without thought. This is the key statement. Religions and spiritual people say that awareness will bring self-knowledge. They don’t say that thought will bring self-knowledge, but they all start out with thought. (I guess building more awareness?) Some doubt there.
Awareness without thought contains nothing from the past. Because all conditioning, and who I think that I am, travels only in the vehicle of thought. In a still-mind, there is only receptiveness for the new. That new, is right here, right now present. Neither can I visit the past or future, nor any ideology without thought. So I become focused on the now.
This is the difference between thinking and insight. Insight happens when thought is absent. Therefore in the mastery of the mind, we find those times when thought is necessary (in the physical world), and when it has been destructive, (in the psychological world).
Nothing to believe here; JUST TRY IT OUT.
I can’t tell you the ratio of thought to no thought. You must determine that for yourself in every moment that it comes to mind. My testimony is that you will be rewarded.
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February 7, 2025 at 05:54 #51525
Nico Cost
ParticipantKrishnamurti is right as everyone is right for himself. In order to find his truth, Krishnamurti also traveled and constructed a path which he then also dismantled. Disbanding it was a logical step for where he was, but at the same time he thereby deprived others of a path by which they could arrive at the same point. Who was he to determine for others what was a right path? At the same time, it is fine because in doing so, he continued to follow his own path. It does indicate the relativity of a single person, however wise. He closed a road, but in doing so also created a new road/truth. Some love it, others don’t even see it. We are all Krishnamurti. Most importantly, we are in motion, no matter which way we go. Nor can it be otherwise that we are in motion, for to move is literally to live. Nothing stands still, everything is a spiral.
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February 7, 2025 at 06:14 #51526
Nico Cost
ParticipantLife is materialized consciousness. Matter is a denser aggregation state of energy.
The consciousness of the mind is a further elaboration of the soul on Earth. The mind has its simple life functions such as regulating the heartbeat, which are the unconscious processes. On top of that, man is aware of more complex matters of life and can give free rein to his will with his mind. With that will, for example, man can consciously regulate his own heart rate. Man becomes aware of the bigger picture and his role in it. The mind is still developing in order to realize man’s potential.
Can we conceive and create the next step in our evolution? If so, with our minds or by other means? If not, what to do instead?
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February 10, 2025 at 19:44 #51757
DestinationUnkown
ParticipantHi Nico, and thanks for your comments. Just above I explained how I see thought is channeled by desire, built in the past, and then focused on what supports that past. All its discovery in that focus is interpreted, (and believed to be), a continuation of those old collected experiences. For all practical purposes, and within your particular symbolic model of the world, it is a continuation. Your virtual world marches forward step by step.
This virtual (thought based) world is also what you call everybody’s individual “path to growth”. That path is also a continuation, and the older it is, the more we call it sacred. But isn’t the vision of “truth”, (the essence of growth), a clean break-away from past conditioning? How do you find that break-away through the window of the known? You don’t, (at least in many millions of aspirants).
I never read about Krishnamurti’s training, but it is easy enough to find. I also have three journals, three short periods where he kept a diary of his strange experiences, and the many years of contractions (pain) in his body. Was that a result of his teaching, or in spite of his teaching? Everything we read or are told about religion or growth forms an expectation, a channel, that favors the recreation of that past. You can’t really stop all these potential expectations, but you can “sneer” at them, and take them “little or none” seriously.
EXPECTATION IS THE MOST DAMAGING THING you can hold in your path toward growth.
All spiritual masters tell you something about the goal. Nirvana or some such. You can’t know what it is, so all those goals are soaked in imagination. They are all expectation, with which you become convinced, I want some of that. That’s the “I” that you think that you are, and all gathered from yesterday. It is all just mundane desire. No matter what practice the master gives, your little “I” is lurking there to check if it is working. Am I doing it right? That is the poison that destructs any and all practice. It is egoic desire.
You and I met on your meditation essay. So what do you find in your meditations? Are you developing more thought and expectation? Are you basking in feelings? Whatever; you are aware. I mentioned above that awareness within the still-mind is very active. But it is limited to the here/now, the place and time where I exist, to reality. (Reality is that which is present with or without thoughts.) The still-mind cannot consider the past, visit psychological, ideological, religions or spiritual systems, nor project itself into the future. The only possible self-knowledge must check-in with the me that truly exists.
If Krishnamurti has a path, it can be boiled down to one suggestion. That the mastery of the mind is both about how to develop it, and how to use it; and then when it is not necessary, is when you can rest in still-mind. The still-mind is an anchor to the real you. With that anchor, you’ll never go astray.
THAT’S WHERE GROWTH IS.
So while visiting stillness, you see clearly the ranges of thought, past, future, and ideology and philosophy, and maybe you determine those are not your permanent hang-outs any more. You sort of get “fed-up” with that same old haunt, and it becomes uninteresting. From that, thought can drop by itself for prolonged periods. Although “more” is not better. (Even during those times, beware of expectation, that now you are supposed to see broad vistas.) But anyway, those silent periods are there WITH NO DESIRE.
THINGS CAN HAPPEN in that fertile ground. If you ever go there.
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